Sustained Holds in Combos

This has been a topic on the SFSTG mailing list from time to time.  Since a Sustained Hold is potentially a multi-round maneuver, how does it chain into a combo with other maneuvers?  The basic answer is:  Just like any other maneuver.  The speed bonus applies to the act of applying the hold (if it comes after another maneuver) and to the maneuver that follows the end of the hold, whether the player voluntarily releases it, the enemy breaks free, or the turn limit based on Grab expires.

The bigger conundrum is the sustained hold in a Dizzy combo.  Sustained holds like Stomach Pump have the potential to do TONS of damage over a period of time, and if it all counted for Dizzy, every smart wrestler would have a stupid combo like (Sustained Hold) to (Fast Followup) (Dizzy) so that every time he used the sustained hold, it would count for dizzy.  Even worse (and probably more common) would be the inevitable Block to (Sustained Hold) (Dizzy) or Flying Tackle to (Sustained Hold) (Dizzy).  A hold you can't jump away from.  Or how about Head Bite to Head Bite to Head Bite (Dizzy)?  Three fast sustained holds in a row... a character with Grab 5 therefore could have a Dizzy combo 15 turns long!

If this bothers the GM too much, apply the following rules:

• If a dizzy combo begins with a Sustained Hold, only the last turn of the hold counts toward the Dizzy.
• If a dizzy combo ends with a Sustained Hold, only the first turn of the hold counts for Dizzy.
• If a dizzy combo has a Sustained Hold in the middle of it, count only the current turn's damage for purposes of Dizzy.  If the combo continues to its third maneuver, the last turn of the hold counts for Dizzy.

Wrestlemaniac has Bear Hug to Suplex to Buffalo Punch (Dizzy).  He attacks a Stamina 4 target with it and succeeds in applying the hold.  He maintains the hold for 3 turns, doing 2, 3, and 1 points of damage.  The target was not dizzied by any one of these results, so he continues the combo, keeping the last turn's damage (1) in mind for dizzying purposes.  He successfully follows up with a Suplex for 2 (total Dizzying damage = 1 + 2 = 3), and manages to get off the Buffalo Punch for 4 damage.  His target is now dizzied.

Judo Wolf has Flying Tackle to Claw to Head Bite (Dizzy).  He attacks a Stamina 5 target.  The tackle does 1 point of damage.  The follow-up Claw does 3 points of damage.  The Head Bite on its first turn does 1 point of damage... the target is not dizzied, as the total Dizzy damage (1 + 3 +1 = 5) does not exceed the target's stamina.  Judo Wolf can maintain the hold for as long as he is able if he wishes, but no further successes will add to dizzy the enemy.

Dakota has Jab to Brain Cracker to Elbow Smash (Dizzy).  He moves in and attacks a Stamina 4 target.  The Jab does 1 damage.  He successfully gets in with the Brain Cracker and does 2 points with it.  The second turn he does 2, but the target is not dizzied, as only the current turn's damage is being counted for dizzying purposes.  The third turn does 1, and the fourth turn does 3.  If he had managed 4 during any one turn of the hold, his Dizzy total with the 1 point from the Jab would have dizzied his enemy.  The Elbow Smash does 3, bringing the Dizzy total to (1 + 3 + 3 =) 7, dizzying the enemy.

Garrote has Neck Choke to Neck Choke to Neck Choke (Dizzy).  He attacks a Stamina 6 target with this combo.  His damage rolls are 1, 2, 2 (target breaks free), 2, 2, 1, 2 (hold expires), 1, 2, 1, 2 (hold expires).  At no point during this sequence is the subject dizzied, and if he has 19 or 20 health, he may still be conscious.  Here's a table to illustrate the sequence of damage and how it applies for Dizzy in a 3-sustained hold dizzy combo:

Modifying Maneuvers In Combos

A generally accepted practice is that maneuvers which modify the stats of other maneuvers, when used in a combo, must be defined as being part of that combo.  Therefore, if you have Block to Strong to Fierce (Psychokinetic Channeling), it must be written that way, and if you're out of Chi, you can't do that step of the combo.

Modifying maneuvers are defined as the following:

• Flaming Fist
• Flight
• Ghost Form
• Jump
• Light Feet (active use requiring willpower)
• Lightness
• Psychokinetic Channeling
• Rekka Ken
• Speed of the Mongoose
• Toughskin

• Balance:  Balance is an automatic effect applied to any aerial maneuver.  If a character had a combo Wall Spring to Jumping Roundhouse and learned Balance after the fact, it should not count against him, as it's not something that has to be actively concentrated on.
• Extendible Limbs:  This is also an automatic effect.  A character who has learned Extendible Limbs and put in the time practicing it must be assumed to have done so to the point where it would work in previously learned combos.
• Leech:  Leech is not actually a maneuver modifier, but a maneuver in itself.  A target must be putinto a sustained hold before Leech can be utilized, however, so its use in a combo would have to be either in the first position, or immediately following a Sustained Hold, i.e. Head Bite to Leech to Dragon Punch.  It should be noted that there is little benefit to gaining a speed bonus for Leech, but it's marginally useful to place maneuvers after it for when the hold is broken, so Leech to Dragon Punch would work just as well as Head Bite to Leech to Dragon Punch.
• Light Feet (passive use):  If no willpower is expended, Light Feet functions automatically and does not have to be defined within a combo.
• Musical Accompaniment:  This one is debatable, but the way I look at it, the fact that your favorite training music isn't available doesn't mean that forget how to do a Jab to Strong to Fierce.  It's an automatic effect.  Optionally, the GM may require a player to define in what way Musical Accompaniment affects each maneuver in a combo, i.e. Jab (MA=Move) to Backflip Kick (MA=Speed) to Rolling Attack (MA=Damage), but if the preferred music is unavailable, the character can still perform the combo normally.
• Turn Punch:  Although the Turn Punch is a premeditated modifying maneuver, there's no benefit to requiring a tag like Jab (Turn Punch) to Turn Punch.  A Turn Punch played immediately is a -1/+4/Two maneuver that costs willpower, hardly worth consideration as an abusable move.

Similar to the dilemma with Sustained Holds above, a multiple hit maneuver like Hyper Fist becomes exponentially more powerful when used as part of a Dizzy combo.  In fact, one could argue that this is the intended use of a multiple hit maneuver, since they tend to do fairly low damage per hit.

Multiple hit maneuvers do combine for Dizzy when used in a Dizzy combo.  They differ from a Sustained Hold in that all the damage is done in a single attack, as opposed to a sustained hold which can last for up to 8 turns, without retribution to the attacking character from his victim.

The abusable point to a multiple-hit dizzy combo is when the multiple hit maneuver comes first.  Take the combo Hyper Fist to Roundhouse (Dizzy).  A literal interpretation would have the owner of this combo combine for dizzy every time he used the Hyper Fist, since he could just say that it's part of his dizzy combo.

The solution is to only allow the combining to dizzy if the combo is executed.  This means at least the first 2 steaps of a combo must be performed.  After all, if you didn't do the roundhouse, you technically did not do the combo.

This also solves the perennial whining from players who wish to make a one-maneuver combo, i.e. Lightning Leg (Dizzy).  This is illegal.