On May 14 1999, C. Dalton wrote…

Though I do like a portion of your site and your work, I have to complain about your constant bashing of teenagers for no particular reason.  Since you seem to target the goth sort, let me say that unless you have experienced the lifestyle (or anything, for that matter) for yourself, you have no way of knowing what it is like and therefore have no right to berate people who choose to live it with bullshit flames about no one understanding them.

Erm, I don’t necessarily target the goth sort because they are goth, but because they are following the mindless "outsider" lifestyle of the time… it used to be hippyism, then revolutionary, and when I went to school, beginning to turn goth and anarchist.  The thing which sucks about this choice is that it’s a CHOICE to follow a lifestyle because (in most cases) it makes you an "outsider", where actually all you are doing is joining another group and reveling in your outsideness.  The "no one understands me" bullshit is a teenage angst constant from time immemorial.  When I went to school it meant you sat in your room and wore black and listened to Pink Floyd all day.  Being an outsider is a perfectly natural thing for a teenager to want, as it provides a limitless font of false identity, clique acceptance, and self-pity.  It’s also really stupid and deserves to be mocked.

And who are you to say what I have and have not experienced?  Oh wait, I have no right to berate people by saying no one understands them… because I don’t understand them.  Thank you.  It makes so much sense now.  I’ll try not to poke fun at people who actually walk around and say "You don’t understand my pain" by saying I don’t understand their pain, since I don’t understand their pain.

That’s totally unneccesary and ignorant of you.  Perhaps it’s the fact that you don’t recognize the potential of the net and just see it as some faceless and nameless set of handles… but there are inevitably people behind those, some of which are hurt badly by things other people say.  Keep that in mind.

Oh, I’ve never thought of that before.  I’ve only been talking about the anonymity shield ever since I ran into assholes playing Heavy Gear, my first online game, who were blatantly happy to cheat and play cheaply because of their facelessness.  For the record, if anyone thinks that what I say on a low-traffic, personal home page about crappy games hurts them deeply, my name is Howard Collins.  Howard Collins hurt you deeply.  I’ll get T-shirts saying that soon.

Just another thing, and I’ll leave you to deliver some little ball of hate to my mailbox.

Umm… how do I send a ball of hate as an attachment?  8P

Did you ever think that if perhaps people didn’t seek to reject and ridicule people who are different (not act different, that’s a small-minded thing to say, considering we’re all infinitely different), we would have far less people flying off the handle and shooting other people?  Oh no, I forgot, we can’t blame anyone else, even if it’s partially their fault, we always have to act so very MACHO and "take it like a man" and blame ourselves for everything we do.  That is a disgusting attitude.

I’m sorry that I have hurt you deeply.   What’s more disgusting is the fact that almost no one takes responsibility for their actions, instead wanting to blame all of their asinine behavior on others.  "Ooooh, I’ll act in a manner specifically designed to make me seem like an outcast.  What, people are treating me like an outcast?  Damn them!  I’ll open up on them with some small arms fire.  It’s not my fault.  They hurt my feelings deeply."  Keep pointing those fingers.  I’m sure you can find an endless stream of reasons other than personal choice on which to blame any stupid behavior you may execute in the future.

Here’s an amazing thought… why not just act how you want, and realize that what you do has certain consequences?  (Aleister Crowley, a forerunner to the goth movement, promoted this idea heavily.  Check your history.)  If you are in an environment filled with opinionated, judgmental people such as high school, and you choose to act in a way which celebrates your darkness and outcast status, well holy shit you get treated like an outcast!  And it’s not blame… it’s RESPONSIBILITY.  If you push someone around because they are different, you are being an asshole and should take responsibility for it.  If you open up on someone with a gun because you’re a whiny, self-centered loser who can’t handle the pressures that come with your personal choice of lifestyle, then you are a FUCKING IDIOT and deserve to be ridiculed.

I have no pity for the majority of the students of that high school, because they got the backlash that was coming to them for bullying.  Now people will at least think twice before pushing people around for no reason except their differences.  Enough, I’ll end this.

Yeah, they’ll think twice now.  Course, it’s hard for them to do anything about it since they’re dead.  You know what’s more likely?  People will remember Columbine and be even harder on goths, even those who never had the perfectly rational thought of blowing away their classmates (which is not their fault!  Waaaah!).  Some high schools have recently begun suspending people for running goth websites and wearing black trenchcoats.  Thanks, Columbine killers.  You’ve helped usher out the goth movement and usher in whatever will be the next big, whiny, bullshit self-pitying pseudo-philosophy of depressed high school kiddies everywhere.


 

5/14/99 (later) – A quick reply from Columbine murderer advocate C. Dalton just about as soon as school let out… get a drink, this is pretty long-winded.  Ever try and read the Unabomber’s manifesto?  That made me sleepy too.

All you’ve proved in this bullshit response is that you refuse to understand anyone but yourself.  You don’t grasp the concept that people should be respected no matter what they "choose" to do or how they choose to live their lives.  Instead you say "stop complaining about anything, even if it’s perfectly rational" and categorize every reasonable complaint as "whining".  Small-minded fool…  When you take that sickeningly complacent attitude you have into mind, you are only perpetuating bullying.  Think of how much more this happens in America, the land of Conform or Die.  Perhaps you haven’t been reading your US News and World Report recently, but the Columbine killings have caused America to (for once) THINK about its actions, something you ought to try sometime.  High schools have instituted rules wherein if people do not stop someone else from harrassing another, they are punished or suspended.  I say it’s about fuckin’ time someone stopped with this machismo crap wherein people aren’t allowed to complain or express themselves… and which you are a prime advocate of.

Attention all readers:  Columbine killers promote police state mentality through acts of generic nonconformity and murder!  Boy, no one ever said you can’t complain or express anything.  You seem to have grasped that pretty well, considering the verboseness of your email.  As for thinking about my actions, well DID YOU READ A GODDAMN WORD FROM THE PREVIOUS MAIL?  Listen, I know you’re very enthused about this new ideal of murdering people to enhance public awareness, but you really should take some time out and read something once in a while.

Me… advocate conformity… baaahahahaha.  I’m going to show this letter to everyone I know.  Your mail is kinda tedious to read, but it sure does make me laugh sometimes.  Thanks!

Erm, I don’t necessarily target the goth sort because they are goth, but because they are following the mindless "outsider" lifestyle of the time…

Idiocy, wrapped in literacy, couched in narcissism.  You have no right to say anything about a lifestyle you weren’t a part of.

Ah, ok.  Everyone, please take back anything bad you may have said about Ku Klux Klansmen and Nazis.  You weren’t one, after all.  As a matter of fact, I doubt that C. Dalton was a jock (see below).  Or an arrogant, conformity-advocating asshole like me.  Oh well, allowances must be made.

The "no one understands me" bullshit is a teenage angst constant from time immemorial.  Being an outsider is a perfectly natural thing for a teenager to want, as it provides a limitless font of false identity, clique acceptance, and self-pity.  It’s also really stupid and deserves to be mocked.

You are one of the most stereotypical people I have ever met, along with one of the most arrogant.  How can you presume to shove your generalizations upon every teenager in America?  We are smarter than anyone thinks, yet we are given little or no credit for our ideas until we reach a certain age, which is bullshit, obviously, because age doesn’t mean much of anything except to small-minded gen-Xers or boomers (whichever you happen to be) such as yourself.  I believe you need to get a clue about the "clique acceptance" thing.  Outsiders are people who don’t have a clique to accept them.  There were plenty where I went to HS, so don’t go saying how ignorant I am and that they’re living double lives as you’re tempted to, because unlike you, I am not totally out of touch with my teenage years and teenagers in general. For you to apply YOUR social clime in high school to those of us is, to put it simply, wrong.

"Whichever you happen to be, such as yourself"  Boy, how dare you pass judgment on a group of people (or several in this case) you were never a part of?  Besides, I don’t really care about applying the mores of my high school years to yours, as I’m really just replying to YOU, and so I am applying the mores of self-righteous reactionary angry pricks to you.  I believe those stay constant.

As for kids being more intelligent than adults, well I have always believed that… years of annoying acclimitization in public school, college, the workplace, and watching television tends to make people stupid.  See?  It’s not my fault I’m so small minded!  It’s… the MAN trying to bring me down!

And who are you to say what I have and have not experienced?  Oh wait, I have no right to berate people by saying no one understands them… because I don’t understand them.  Thank you.  It makes so much sense now.  I’ll try not to poke fun at people who actually walk around and say "You don’t understand my pain" by saying I don’t understand their pain, since I don’t understand their pain.

Stop it with the semantics.  You know what I meant.  In case it escaped your 10-inch intellectual range, I’ll reiterate.  You contribute to the problem of teenagers feeling depressed and trodden upon by not giving credit where credit is due, that is to say, neglecting all of their other benefits and capitalizing on a preconceived notion that they complain a lot, which, in the Book of Macho Assholes, is the greatest sin one can commit.  To sum it up, who are you to say that: 1. Complaining is wrong, and 2. Teenagers have no redeeming qualities at all?

Once again, please tell me somewhere that I have said it’s wrong to complain, or that teenagers have no redeeming qualities.  If I ever said anything like that, what I meant was that goth reactionary no-perspective we’ll-show-you-we-are-right-and-you-are-just-an-oppressor teenagers have a lot of sucky qualities, and that they should be made fun of.  I never said no one has a right to complain.  You, obviously, are complaining right now.  A lot.  About some really interesting fantasies.  Maybe it’s just wrong to complain without basis.

Oh, I’ve never thought of that before.  I’ve only been talking about the anonymity shield ever since I ran into assholes playing Heavy Gear, my first online game, who were blatantly happy to cheat and play cheaply because of their facelessness.  For the record, if anyone thinks that what I say on a low-traffic, personal home page about crappy games hurts them deeply, my name is Howard Collins.  Howard Collins hurt you deeply.  I’ll get T-shirts saying that soon.

Oh give it a rest.  You’re nothing but a hypocrite if you complain about the "anonymity shield" as you term it, and then write something as mean-spirited and hurtful as the "UO Writers’ Guide to Fiction".

What does one have to do with the other?  I never  said, uh, here’s a writing guide that I like, umm, found somewhere, but I don’t know who wrote it.  It’s MUSASHI’S Guide to Writing UO RP Stories, on a page with my email all over it.  Take a step back and see the contradiction.  Just because it made you cry doesn’t mean it was done with anonymity.

You’re right.  That was mean.  OK, I’m taking down the RP writing guide and expressing myself by pulling a chainsaw out at a UO live gathering and killing everyone in sight.  That would be OK, right?

I’m sorry that I have hurt you deeply.

You didn’t, I was just trying to make you realize the potency of words, which so many of the average chimpanzee-brained "net elite" don’t realize.

No shit.  Words are power, and I will continue to use it as I see fit,  knowing full well that someone like you may choose to use them as well and write angry mail about it.

What’s more disgusting is the fact that almost no one takes responsibility for their actions, instead wanting to blame all of their asinine behavior on others.

Such as yourself in some cases.

Where did this come from?  *searches site* Nope, don’t see an example of this.  Oh wait… you pulled it out of your ass, right?

"Ooooh, I’ll act in a manner specifically designed to make me seem like an outcast.  What, people are treating me like an outcast?  Damn them!  I’ll open up on them with some small arms fire.  It’s not my fault.  They hurt my feelings deeply."

Again, if closed-minded people such as yourself didn’t treat people insultingly because they chose a different path in life, THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN.  You can’t deny that.  And that is the ONLY finger I point, for the record.

Hello… someone will insult you no matter what path you choose.  If you are a goth teenager who likes to flame self-righteously (if you can think this is a lifestyle choice), some jerkoff like me is going to pound you for it.  It you go right to suits and ties and the MBA, the "non-conformists" will pound you.  If you are a musician, the music business will pound you for making that choice.  (And yes, I did this for eight years.)  The fact that someone makes fun of you is somewhat unpleasant, but is not a justification for opening up on them with firearms.  The "oppressors" didn’t put a gun in their hands, make them point it at them and squeeze the trigger… THEY did.

Keep pointing those fingers.  I’m sure you can find an endless stream of reasons other than personal choice on which to blame any stupid behavior you may execute in the future.

You’re getting your subjects confused here.

Probably.  Your rationales keep shifting so much it’s hard to keep track.

Here’s an amazing thought… why not just act how you want, and realize that what you do has certain consequences?  (Aleister Crowley, a forerunner to the goth movement, promoted this idea heavily.  Check your history.)

I realize what I do shouldn’t have certain consequences no matter how I act.  Don’t think I’m alone on this either (though it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to me whether I have people backing me), as several schools have instituted, as I said, anti-bullying programs.  The amount of on-campus violence has declined more than 25% in the schools that have instituted this.  That’s not an ignoble statistic, and it proves that you have to FORCE acceptance of diversity upon people to get them to change their ways, which I wholly support.

This has nothing to do with getting people to change their ways, it’s a means of curbing violence through a threat of force, which as ironic as it is, tends to work.  You are not going to get people to suddenly accept every group they have a prejudice against by simply telling them not to think that way anymore.  Once you get some real-world experience, you might get the picture… "Diversity" program sets in.  Everyone who didn’t have a problem with diversity in the first place just goes on.  Everyone who had prejudices and bigotry in place just seethes, talks privately, and grows hatred.  Besides, what happens when people decide that black trenchcoats are offensive to the group of "people who were justifiable horrified at the Columbine massacre" and  wearing a trenchcoat is considered to be emotional harassment?  It already is in some schools.  Think about that, behavioral Gestapo boy.

If you are in an environment filled with opinionated, judgmental people such as high school, and you choose to act in a way which celebrates your darkness and outcast status, well holy shit you get treated like an outcast!

I don’t know why you always say those folks "act" like outcasts, because I’ve seen quite a few, and they don’t "act" like outcasts, merely as they want to.  They don’t revel in being separate from the ignorant Xian masses.  They don’t think of that at all.  Evidently it’s something you’ve never thought to try yourself, because experience has more value than constantly presuming.

We must know different groups of goths then, and I have friends who follow this lifestyle dating back years and years (I am an old man, as you point out).  Eventually it becomes a lifestyle, and seems natural, but the root of the subculture, like most subcultures, is in a desire to show that they are "different"… from the "ignorant Xian masses", which is an interesting prejudicial generalization in itself.

Just an FYI:  I have hung out with, been accepted by, and participated in a large number of groups, including goths (before goth found its way out of the New York City underground scene to public high schools, which is the way most of these trends start), S&M fetishists, NRA gun advocates, environmental activists, yoga disciples, and a guy who liked to make sculptures out of dead animals.  So please don’t assume I have some sort of lack of perspective regarding lifestyle choices.  You might try getting out of the "us-and-them" stage yourself someday.

And it’s not blame… it’s RESPONSIBILITY.  If you push someone around because they are different, you are being an asshole and should take responsibility for it.

And they did take responsibility for it in Colorado.  They got shot to bits.  Poetic justice, hmm?

Oh yeah.  That makes perfect sense.  And what happens if some jocks take you out back of the school one day and beat your cranium in with a lead pipe?  Serves you right for expressing negative views about them and the rest of the "ignorant Xian masses".  When it happens, I’ll be glad to post your views all over the place with a picture of your demolished skull and close-ups of your devastated family and friends, and say, "Look!  He was right!  Sorry I ever said anything bad about him!"

If you open up on someone with a gun because you’re a whiny, self-centered loser who can’t handle the pressures that come with your personal choice of lifestyle, then you are a FUCKING IDIOT and deserve to be ridiculed.

I have yet to hear you or anyone else who harps on the wrongness of having concrete and understandable complaints prove to me why they’re so evil.  Are you a religious person?  Is "whining" your antichrist?  Perhaps you need to look at your own page for the sheer vastness of "whining" contained therein.  Perhaps that’ll get you to think.

Once again, for the literacy impaired, I NEVER said it was wrong to have a complaint.  Or express it.  What is wrong is having a complaint, not  being able to deal with other people’s complaints, and fucking killing them, no matter how just you think it might be.

Yeah, they’ll think twice now.  Course, it’s hard for them to do anything about it since they’re dead.

It was obvious that I meant the majority of other jocks around the country.

"Jocks."  So you think all jocks everywhere have some sort of viewpoint you don’t agree with to the extent that they deserve death?  I doubt you’ve ever been one.  How can you judge a group you’ve never been part of?

You know what’s more likely?  People will remember Columbine and be even harder on goths, even those who never had the perfectly rational thought of blowing away their classmates (which is not their fault!  Waaaah!).  Some high schools have recently begun suspending people for running goth websites and wearing black trenchcoats.

And thanks to that, there will be more killing, and more killing, and people will start running about like headless chickens anew blaming the media,
music industry, D&D, etc. etc. etc.  Then more of the same will happen even after they’ve taken away all the violence on television and replaced all the music with Partridge Family albums, and they’ll have no one else to blame and sink into a fit of endlessly blind nihilism.

Umm, so now you think it’s wrong to blame external factors for someone’s actions?  Please, help me out here.  Shifting your stands on issues for the sake of trying to argue with me makes me dizzy.  I can understand how the blind nihlism might be attractive to you, though.

Thanks, Columbine killers.  You’ve helped usher out the goth movement and usher in whatever will be the next big, whiny, bullshit self-pitying pseudo-philosophy of depressed high school kiddies everywhere.

All you’re spouting is homogenized garbage attempting to rationalize your nonexistent train of thought.  "Oh, this is how it was when I was in high school so this is how it must be today!"  Grow up, pops.  Goth is not about self-pity or any of what you said, yet you, the pontiff, proclaim yourself vested with the authority to stand high on the crumbling mountaintop of "adulthood" (translation: the period in which the mind will no longer accept anything new) and cast down your venom upon the young adults, merely because everyone else does it.  You think you’re exempt from your own principles of conformity?  Wake up.  Those of you from past generations are inferior species mentally, as you’ve proven so graciously here.  We will drown you in our wake; all your preconceived notions will be invalidated.  Our generation will make the world more of a better place than you had even dreamed of. Then perhaps you will admit you were wrong, completely wrong, for saying we had no value as people just because we were teenagers.  What, isn’t that what you’ve been trying to prove in your entire letter, that we are meaningless just because we’re young?  That our thoughts are invalid because we haven’t lived through your experiences, which, I may add, have no bearing on our lives whatsoever?  That’s why they’re called YOUR experiences and not OUR experiences.  We have much more worth than you give us credit for, Mr. Duck.  We’ll prove it to you in due time.

I hope your world is a wonderful, fantastic place, where everyone gets along and you don’t have to deal with old people like me making you so cranky.  To this end, I propose that your world be somewhere far, far away, where you can all sit around and agree with each other how correct you were and  how the older generation just DOESN’T UNDERSTAND YOU.  Of course, we won’t have that problem, since not understanding you will probably be deemed grounds for painful death by firing squad.  It’s poetic justice, right?

As for having worth, you worthless moron, I never said that "you" (plural) have no worth, just that "you" (plural) have a lot of asinine traits, which your letters have helped bring into clearer focus.  It’s OK to have asinine traits, and wow it sure is fun pushing your buttons over them (especially when those buttons are so damn obvious).  I firmly contend that younger people have far more potential than older people mentally speaking (I have never tested as high on an IQ test as I did at age, umm, 10), but the fact that you have this potential locked up in public schools and small world views for an extended period of time means that while you do have some interesting things to say, a lot of them are wildly baseless exercises in semantic arguments.  I bet you would do well on the debate team.  Never was it my intent to say that young people are worthless or stupid, with the possible exception of the Columbine killers and their fan club.  However, a lot of them do share some really mockable traits.

Information for you:  when adults tend to look down and discount kids, the reasons are typically one of the following:  (1) the kid really is an asshole, (2) the adult feels uncomfortable and has to assert his position as alpha male or something, or (3) the kid has some valid points and a lot of time on his hands to think about them, but lacks the experience and perspective to be able to make a balanced judgment.  This last one is the one I use when I look down and discount your meandering manifestos.  It’s also one I’ll never be able to quantify, because I have had the experiences, and you haven’t.  Probably.  It is possible you have experienced the same amount of stuff that I have at your age, but if this was the case you would be so busy you would never have time to write.

I would encourage you to get you own website to present your fascinating views to the world, which will one day recognize that you were right when you prove it to everyone in due time.  If you don’t have one already, your ISP might provide you with some free web page space.  (Your parents, if they own the ISP account, might have the space too, but just don’t understand it.  Feel free to steal it from them.)  If not, then Geocities, Xoom or Tripod may host your space unless they decide the content is unacceptable (they have strange and shifting standards for what’s good and bad… you should be able to understand that).   I’m sure with a platform of your own, you can help make this world a better place by advocating murder in exchange for hurt feelings.

If you would prefer a more localized audience, do what I did and run an underground newspaper at your school.  It’s easy as hell now too… I’m so damned old I actually had to go to a print shop with a typeset layout to get it done.  True, a website is mroe easily updated and lower maintenance, but you will miss the excitement of passing around pieces of paper in class detailing why I and all others like me are evil and should eventually be shot in the name of diversity to make way for your brave new world.

BTW, what part of my site did you like?  8P

 


5/17/99 – I had despaired of ever hearing again from my most virulent enemy (besides hacking smoker’s cough), but way early Monday Morning, as I was editing this very section, I received this.  I am posting it as I read it, and may reply pretty soon.  8P

Attention all readers:  Columbine killers promote police state mentality through acts of generic nonconformity and murder!

I’ve seen and heard quite a few examples of this actually… it’s not a total falsehood.

Boy, no one ever said you can’t complain or express anything.  You seem to have grasped that pretty well, considering the verboseness of your email.

And yours in turn complaining about my complaints.  To get this out of the way quickly, you imply when you constantly complain about complaining that complaining of any kind is wrong.  Yes, I’m fully aware of the contradiction.  I’m also aware of the fact that people contradict themselves a lot of the time.  Just to point that out.

As for thinking about my actions, well DID YOU READ A GODDAMN WORD FROM THE PREVIOUS MAIL?  Listen, I know you’re very enthused about this new ideal of murdering people to enhance public awareness, but you really should take some time out and read something once in a while.

Now, I think both of us have some comprehension problems here.  My statement was indifferent and factual: that the killings, as most killings of this scope tend to do, have raised public awareness, albeit in the wrong ways in some cases.  I didn’t advocate it or say "go out and kill people".

Ah, ok.  Everyone, please take back anything bad you may have said about Ku Klux Klansmen and Nazis.  You weren’t one, after all.  As a matter of fact, I doubt that you were a jock (see below).  Or an arrogant, conformity-advocating asshole like me.  Oh well, allowances must be made.

Yes, I was into the jock mentality at one time, believe it or not.  It didn’t stick.  Also, there’s quite a difference between Nazis and the KKK and goths.  Goths, while occasionally poked at in some far-flung expose of the media’s, generally enjoy a pleasant anonymity.  They don’t tout their views or have any particular musician represent them (not the ones everyone thinks represent them either).  The KKK and the Nazis were very active in spreading their views and in making people understand their beliefs through atrocities all over the news, radio, TV, etc.  So rational people can assume they wouldn’t WANT to be part of that movement with a rational base, and without just relying on personal prejudices.  Are we clear on this?

"Whichever you happen to be, such as yourself"  Boy, how dare you pass judgment on a group of people (or several in this case) you were never a part of?

See the point above; you make no effort to hide your age, and considering that your generation has sculpted every aspect of American society since perhaps the 70′s onward, I think you’re fair game for judging.

Besides, I don’t really care about applying the mores of my high school years to yours, as I’m really just replying to YOU, and so I
am applying the mores of self-righteous reactionary angry pricks to you.  I believe those stay constant.

A little confusion of wording here.  You’re saying YOU are a self-righteous reactionary prick?  Because that’s what your sentence structure tells me.

As for kids being more intelligent than adults, well I have always believed that… years of annoying acclimitization in public school, college, the workplace, and watching television tends to make people stupid.  See?  It’s not my fault I’m so small minded!  It’s… the MAN trying to bring me down!

The system, not the man.  You gotta keep your counterculture lexicon up to date at least.

Once again, please tell me somewhere that I have said it’s wrong to complain, or that teenagers have no redeeming qualities.  If I ever said anything like that, what I meant was that goth reactionary no-perspective we’ll-show-you-we-are-right-and-you-are-just-an-oppressor teenagers have a lot of sucky qualities, and that they should be made fun of.

Ah, keep blathering about "perspective" and "experience"… but do realize that we probably aren’t going to "grow up" in the same manner you did.  So your experience is most likely not applicable to us, and we’ll have a completely different perspective of existence at your age than you do now.  And about your conception of goth, it’s evolved much since its birth, obviously… shouldn’t be applied to the same standards as yours was.  Basically, it’s not about showing people you’re right and they’re oppressors.  That was the hippie movement, and if you think that was a "bullshit teenage angst" movement, you must have been totally blitzed during the 60′s and the resulting 70′s.  And hey, this country was founded by counterculture reactionaries.

I never said no one has a right to complain.  You, obviously, are complaining right now.  A lot.  About some really interesting fantasies.  Maybe it’s just wrong to complain without basis.

I have basis for my complaints.  No, I don’t have any interesting fantasies.  None that you’d hear about anyway.

What does one have to do with the other?  I never  said, uh, here’s a writing guide that I like, umm, found somewhere, but I don’t know who wrote it.  It’s MUSASHI’S Guide to Writing UO RP Stories, on a page with my email all over it.  Take a step back and see the contradiction.  Just because it made you cry doesn’t mean it was done with anonymity.

No, it didn’t make me cry, it made me pissed.  I’m probably not alone.  And it was anonymous in that it was done with the type of inconsiderance one could only find online.  You would never write that in a magazine or underground newspaper or anything about people who had been writing or reading stories along those lines in some public forum you attended, because you would either hurt the feelings of someone you liked by making them feel like a target, or be hurt by somebody who got pissed at it.  Possibly both.

You’re right.  That was mean.  OK, I’m taking down the RP writing guide and expressing myself by pulling a chainsaw out at a UO live gathering and killing everyone in sight.  That would be OK, right?

Well, do what you want.  Obviously I don’t condone it.

Words are power, and I will continue to use it as I see fit, knowing full well that someone like you may choose to use them as well
and write angry mail about it.

I guess this is transitional.  I don’t see much of a point in it.

Where did this come from?  *searches site* Nope, don’t see an example of this.  Oh wait… you pulled it out of your ass, right?

No.  Certainly there are people you’ve done wrong to, and you weren’t willing to take responsibility for your actions afterward.  Everyone does it.  So where’s your authority to go condemning it?

Hello… someone will insult you no matter what path you choose.  If you are a goth teenager who likes to flame self-righteously (if you can think this is a lifestyle choice), some jerkoff like me is going to pound you for it.

I’m not a goth, for one.  I was, but not now.  Pounding?  I don’t see any of that going on here; I see philosophizing and discussion.  Oh, and why wouldn’t it be a lifestyle choice?

It you go right to suits and ties and the MBA, the "non-conformists" will pound you.

Oh REALLY.  The nonconformists don’t have enough pull or enough of a say to pound anyone.  You should know that.

If you are a musician, the music business will pound you for making that choice.  (And yes, I did this for eight years.)

You don’t need to explain that to me; it’s self-evident.  The "homogenized sausage factory of conventional pop music" is in full swing nowadays.  Musicians make shitty music that never would have made a dime in previous decades, and now the public’s forced to eat it.  So they gradually grow acclimatized to eating shit (or listening to it in this case), since they have no other choice (they don’t want to exert the effort to LOOK for it).  So the cycle continues, with musicians playing shitty music, the public devouring it and asking for more just because it’s the only thing "exposed" to them.  I can think of a few exceptions offhand, Enigma being one… but for the most part, rock doesn’t exist anymore.

The fact that someone makes fun of you is somewhat unpleasant, but is not a justification for opening up on them with firearms.  The "oppressors" didn’t put a gun in their hands, make them point it at them and squeeze the trigger… THEY did.

Yes, but if you don’t think they were coerced in some way, you’re obviously incorrect.  Things like this don’t just happen spontaneously; there has to be a trigger, some kind of provocation.  Since we only get one side of it, though, we’ll never know what it is.  I do think it’s shitty of people to blame parents.  Hell, my parents are very kind and supportive.  Look how I turned out.

"You’re getting your subjects confused here."

Probably.  Your rationales keep shifting so much it’s hard to keep track.

I have multiple rationales for everything, and it would be cumbersome to explain them all at once, you see.  In that passage, though, I meant that you were way off-base in implying that I had the potential to follow the same path the killers did…

You are not going to get people to suddenly accept every group they have a prejudice against by simply telling them not to think that way anymore.

Run the whole MLK "freedom from discrimination" movement by me again and tell me that wasn’t forced upon the population when laws were enacted to eliminate discrimination against blacks.

Once you get some real-world experience, you might get the picture…

I have more experience than you give me credit for.

"Diversity" program sets in.  Everyone who didn’t have a problem with diversity in the first place just goes on.  Everyone who had prejudices and bigotry in place just seethes, talks privately, and grows hatred.

Explain why Asians continue to be constantly ridiculed and made fun of for racist stereotypes in the mass media then.  Trust me, Japanese racism is at an all-time high.  You should know this from those ignorant motherfuckers calling you a "jap" or "gook" or something like that in mail and on message boards.

Besides, what happens when people decide that black trenchcoats are offensive to the group of "people who were
justifiable horrified at the Columbine massacre" and  wearing a trenchcoat is considered to be emotional harassment?  It already is in some schools.  Think about that, behavioral Gestapo boy.

We must know different groups of goths then,

Yes we do.

and I have friends who follow this lifestyle dating back years and years (I am an old man, as you point out).

Their version…

Eventually it becomes a lifestyle, and seems natural, but the root of the subculture, like most subcultures, is in a desire to show that they are "different"… from the "ignorant Xian masses", which is an interesting prejudicial generalization in itself.

All people aren’t the same.  We’re all different.  We should be free from criticism just because of this fact.

Just an FYI:  I have hung out with, been accepted by, and participated in a large number of groups

Yes you have.

You might try getting out of the "us-and-them" stage yourself someday.

I call it like I see it, and no, I don’t see everyone as being against me as you assume…  I know confrontational "adults" as well.  Are you gonna tell them "get out of the us-and-them stage" too?

Oh yeah.  That makes perfect sense.  And what happens if some jocks take you out back of the school one day and beat your cranium in with a lead pipe?  Serves you right for expressing negative views about them and the rest of the "ignorant Xian masses".

I don’t directly and consistently harrass "jocks".  I tend to get along with everyone.  This doesn’t mean I like them, but I don’t beat them or verbally insult them every time I see them.  There’s a big difference.

When it happens, I’ll be glad to post your views all over the place with a picture of your demolished skull and close-ups of your devastated family and friends, and say, "Look!  He was right!  Sorry I ever said anything bad about him!"

Utterly nonsensical.  You have some serious psychological issues to deal with if you get anything out of see someone’s caved-in skull anyway…

Once again, for the literacy impaired, I NEVER said it was wrong to have a complaint.  Or express it.  What is wrong is having a complaint, not being able to deal with other people’s complaints, and fucking killing them, no matter how just you think it might be.

It wasn’t about complaints, it was about verbal and physical abuse and harrassment.

"Jocks."  So you think all jocks everywhere have some sort of viewpoint you don’t agree with to the extent that they deserve death?  I doubt you’ve ever been one.  How can you judge a group you’ve never been part of?

I’d said I had been part of that group.  And where you got "they deserve death" out of this, I don’t know.  Out of your ass, in turn, perhaps?  I was saying that they now realize the power words hold, and maybe, if they can get their minute amounts of brain matter functioning, think before acting,  realizing they could be the trigger for a psychotic as the ones in CO were.

Umm, so now you think it’s wrong to blame external factors for someone’s actions?  Please, help me out here.

No, I just have a rational basis for my argument, and the people who blame fantastic mediums with no connection to reality do not.

Shifting your stands on issues for the sake of trying to argue with me makes me dizzy.

You’re just misinterpreting me.  Everyone misinterprets, it’s human.

I can understand how the blind nihlism might be attractive to you, though.

There are things of value, obviously.  But there are a disproportionate amount of things with negative value.

As for having worth, you worthless moron, I never said that "you" (plural) have no worth, just that "you" (plural) have a lot of asinine traits, which your letters have helped bring into clearer focus.

The singular you doesn’t realize he’s talking to another singular you who’s not part of a group.

It’s OK to have asinine traits, and wow it sure is fun pushing your buttons over them (especially when those buttons are so damn obvious).

You’re misguided in your efforts.

I firmly contend that younger people have far more potential than older people mentally speaking (I have never tested as high on an IQ test as I did at age, umm, 10), but the fact that you have this potential locked up in public schools and small world views for an extended period of time means that while you do have some interesting things to say, a lot of them are wildly baseless exercises in semantic arguments.  I bet you would do well on the debate team.

I argue on my own time, actually, and about only what I want to.  Besides, I’m not in high school anymore.  And I didn’t go to public schools, besides  for elementary education.  Hardly any semantic arguments that I’ve heard  where I went.

Never was it my intent to say that young people are worthless or stupid, with the possible exception of the Columbine killers and their fan club.  However, a lot of them do share some really mockable traits.

Well, you have the choice to NOT mock them; you aren’t fated to do so just because it’s there to mock…

Information for you:  when adults tend to look down and discount kids, the reasons are typically one of the following:  (1) the kid really is an asshole, (2) the adult feels uncomfortable and has to assert his position as alpha male or something, or (3) the kid has some valid points and a lot of time on his hands to think about them, but lacks the experience and perspective to be able to make a balanced judgment.

See way way above.

This last one is the one I use when I look down and discount your meandering manifestos.

What’s the point of outlining everything deliberately one at a time?  I’d rather not bore my audience to death.

It’s also one I’ll never be able to quantify, because I have had the experiences, and you haven’t.

Correction: You had YOUR experiences, which will be completely and totally distincy from mine.

Probably.  It is possible you have experienced the same amount of stuff that I have at your age, but if this was the case you would be so busy you would never have time to write.

I find an objective perspective is appropriate at times.

I’m sure with a platform of your own, you can help make this world a better place by advocating murder in exchange for hurt feelings.

Nope, never said "murder people because they insult you". I still don’t.

If you would prefer a more localized audience, do what I did and run an underground newspaper at your school.

Been there, done that.  Most of the people I was with at that time weren’t very accurate and were lashing out at the school and such rather baselessly… I seem to be one of the few in the group that realized this.

It’s easy as hell now too… I’m so damned old I actually had to go to a print shop with a typeset layout to get it done.  True, a website is mroe easily updated and lower maintenance, but you will miss the excitement of passing around pieces of paper in class detailing why I and all others like me are evil and should eventually be shot in the name of diversity to make way for your brave new world.

You’re trying to milk something that just isn’t there with the murder advocacy thing.  Besides, I’ve been out of college since May 4th.

BTW, what part of my site did you like?  8P

What people come to your site for in the first place: the Musashi stories.


5/17/99 – I received the latest installment of the ongoing saga late last night, so I saved it for today.  It still made me a little drowsy, and more than a little confused.  So I read everything in the series so far, and I almost slipped into a coma.  However, I managed to piece together some statements under logical headings so that I might understand where this super-fragmented thread is going.  I’m still confused.  And nodding off.  Perhaps you could help me.

Murder

I have no pity for the majority of the students of that high school, because they got the backlash that was coming to them for bullying.  Now people will at least think twice before pushing people around for no reason except their differences.

Perhaps you haven’t been reading your US News and World Report recently, but the Columbine killings have caused America to (for once) THINK about its actions, something you ought to try sometime.

And they did take responsibility for it in Colorado.  They got shot to bits.  Poetic justice, hmm?

"Attention all readers:  Columbine killers promote police state mentality through acts of generic nonconformity and murder!"  I’ve seen and heard quite a few examples of this actually… it’s not a total falsehood.

Now, I think both of us have some comprehension problems here.  My statement was indifferent and factual: that the killings, as most killings of this scope tend to do, have raised public awareness, albeit in the wrong ways in some cases.  I didn’t advocate it or say "go out and kill people".

Well, do what you want.  Obviously I don’t condone it.

And where you got "they deserve death" out of this, I don’t know.

You’re trying to milk something that just isn’t there with the murder advocacy thing.

Semantics

Idiocy, wrapped in literacy, couched in narcissism.

Stop it with the semantics.  You know what I meant.

All you’re spouting is homogenized garbage attempting to rationalize your nonexistent train of thought.

And yours in turn complaining about my complaints.  To get this out of the way quickly, you imply when you constantly complain about complaining that complaining of any kind is wrong.  Yes, I’m fully aware of the contradiction.

"Besides, I don’t really care about applying the mores of my high school years to yours, as I’m really just replying to YOU, and so I am applying the mores of self-righteous reactionary angry pricks to you.  I believe those stay constant."  A little confusion of wording here.  You’re saying YOU are a self-righteous reactionary prick?  Because that’s what your sentence structure tells me.

I have multiple rationales for everything, and it would be cumbersome to explain them all at once, you see.

Hardly any semantic arguments that I’ve heard where I went.

Experience

Evidently it’s something you’ve never thought to try yourself, because experience has more value than constantly presuming.

That our thoughts are invalid because we haven’t lived through your experiences, which, I may add, have no bearing on our lives whatsoever?  That’s why they’re called YOUR experiences and not OUR experiences.

Ah, keep blathering about "perspective" and "experience"… but do realize that we probably aren’t going to "grow up" in the same manner you did.  So your experience is most likely not applicable to us, and we’ll have a completely different perspective of existence at your age than you do now.

I have more experience than you give me credit for.

Correction: You had YOUR experiences, which will be completely and totally distincy from mine.

Age

How can you presume to shove your generalizations upon every teenager in America?  We are smarter than anyone thinks, yet we are given little or no credit for our ideas until we reach a certain age, which is bullshit…

… unlike you, I am not totally out of touch with my teenage years and teenagers in general.

… "adulthood" (translation: the period in which the mind will no longer accept anything new)…

Those of you from past generations are inferior species mentally, as you’ve proven so graciously here.  We will drown you in our wake; all your preconceived notions will be invalidated.  Our generation will make the world more of a better place than you had even dreamed of. Then perhaps you will admit you were wrong, completely wrong, for saying we had no value as people just because we were teenagers.  What, isn’t that what you’ve been trying to prove in your entire letter, that we are meaningless just because we’re young?

We have much more worth than you give us credit for, Mr. Duck.  We’ll prove it to you in due time.

See the point above; you make no effort to hide your age, and considering that your generation has sculpted every aspect of American society since perhaps the 70′s onward, I think you’re fair game for judging.

The system, not the man.  You gotta keep your counterculture lexicon up to date at least.

Besides, I’m not in high school anymore.  And I didn’t go to public schools, besides for elementary education.

Besides, I’ve been out of college since May 4th.

Prejudice

Since you seem to target the goth sort, let me say that unless you have experienced the lifestyle (or anything, for that matter) for yourself, you have no way of knowing what it is like and therefore have no right to berate people who choose to live it with bullshit flames about no one understanding them.

You have no right to say anything about a lifestyle you weren’t a part of.

… small-minded gen-Xers or boomers (whichever you happen to be) such as yourself.

I was just trying to make you realize the potency of words, which so many of the average chimpanzee-brained "net elite" don’t realize.

They don’t revel in being separate from the ignorant Xian masses.

Are you a religious person?  Is "whining" your antichrist?

It was obvious that I meant the majority of other jocks around the country.

… considering that your generation has sculpted every aspect of American society since perhaps the 70′s onward, I think you’re fair game for judging.

All people aren’t the same.  We’re all different.  We should be free from criticism just because of this fact.

Responsibility

Oh no, I forgot, we can’t blame anyone else, even if it’s partially their fault, we always have to act so very MACHO and "take it like a man" and blame ourselves for everything we do.  That is a disgusting attitude.

… you have to FORCE acceptance of diversity upon people to get them to change their ways, which I wholly support.

And thanks to that, there will be more killing, and more killing, and people will start running about like headless chickens anew blaming the media, music industry, D&D, etc. etc. etc.  Then more of the same will happen even after they’ve taken away all the violence on television and replaced all the music with Partridge Family albums, and they’ll have no one else to blame and sink into a fit of endlessly blind nihilism.

And it was anonymous in that it was done with the type of inconsiderance one could only find online.  You would never write that in a magazine or underground newspaper or anything about people who had been writing or reading stories along those lines in some public forum you attended, because you would either hurt the feelings of someone you liked by making them feel like a target, or be hurt by somebody who got pissed at it.  Possibly both.

No.  Certainly there are people you’ve done wrong to, and you weren’t willing to take responsibility for your actions afterward.  Everyone does it.  So where’s your authority to go condemning it?

Stuff That Must Have Come From a Dream

I say it’s about fuckin’ time someone stopped with this machismo crap wherein people aren’t allowed to complain or express themselves… and which you are a prime advocate of.

You are one of the most stereotypical people I have ever met, along with one of the most arrogant.

To sum it up, who are you to say that: 1. Complaining is wrong, and 2. Teenagers have no redeeming qualities at all?

Oh give it a rest.  You’re nothing but a hypocrite if you complain about the "anonymity shield" as you term it, and then write something as mean-spirited and hurtful as the "UO Writers’ Guide to Fiction".

"What’s more disgusting is the fact that almost no one takes responsibility for their actions, instead wanting to blame all of their asinine behavior on others."  Such as yourself in some cases.

I have yet to hear you or anyone else who harps on the wrongness of having concrete and understandable complaints prove to me why they’re so evil.

No.  Certainly there are people you’ve done wrong to, and you weren’t willing to take responsibility for your actions afterward.  Everyone does it.  So where’s your authority to go condemning it?

Utterly nonsensical.  You have some serious psychological issues to deal with if you get anything out of see someone’s caved-in skull anyway…

No, I just have a rational basis for my argument, and the people who blame fantastic mediums with no connection to reality do not.

I find an objective perspective is appropriate at times.

Now, on to a helpful hint from the piece that my poor 10-inch intellect could comprehend…

"Besides, I don’t really care about applying the mores of my high school years to yours, as I’m really just replying to YOU, and so I am applying the mores of self-righteous reactionary angry pricks to you.  I believe those stay constant."

A little confusion of wording here.  You’re saying YOU are a self-righteous reactionary prick?  Because that’s what your sentence structure tells me.

The sentence which seems to cause all the confusion is, "Besides, I don’t really care about applying the mores of my high school years to yours, as I’m really just replying to YOU, and so I am applying the mores of self-righteous reactionary angry pricks to you."  This is what is knows as a "compound sentence", consisting of 2 or more otherwise complete sentences, each containing (at least) a subject and a predicate, linked by conjunctions.  Section One is, "Besides, I don’t really care about applying the mores of my high school years to yours,"  Section Two is "as I’m really just replying to YOU,"  Section Three is "and so I am applying the mores of self-righteous reactionary angry pricks to you."  Although they may seem confusing when strung together in this "compound sentence" structure, if you read it one section at a time, you will find that none of the components seems to indicate that I am referring to myself as a self-righteous reactionary prick.  In fact, there is no indication that anyone is, technically, a self-righteous reactionary prick, but since it seemed to be the closest analogue I could find, I used the mores of self-righteous reactionary pricks to you and your viewpoints.  I hope this clears things up.

Murder:  My contention, remarkably offbeat as it might seem, is that murder is a pretty serious issue, and the fact that one might have felt bullied or oppressed is insufficient cause to commit it.  You contended that the people who were shot deserved it somehow because the idiots who shot them felt that they were being bullied and oppressed.  I don’t know… somehow I think execution and assassination are best reserved for targets who are in the process of committing a deadly crime, multiple murderers, serial rapists, etc., and that although high school bullies are unpleasant, they don’t justify the atrocities committed in Columbine H.S.  You seem to think that teenage angst is sufficient cause to perpetrate indiscriminate wholesale slaughter.  I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Semantics:  Nothing is more boring than a semantic argument.  This is why I try to make my points as clear as possible, in plain English, to avoid confusion and promote easy comprehension, even for the recently college-educated.  So-called "philosophizing" in itself is essentially a worthless pursuit.  Even the latter-day philosophers realized this, and some of the more practical earlier ones.  The sole remaining task for philosophers is the study of language.  (I think that was Wittgenstein… I’ll check up on it later.)  How ultimately droll.  While it is important to speak in as exacting terms as possible so that there is a minimum of confusion on the part of the reader, people will still be dorks and deliberately misinterpret in a misguided attempt to prove that they are right (even when the original topic has long since been forgotten), it doesn’t really do anything for anyone.

Experience:  No shit everyone’s experiences are their own.  Does this mean they should be discarded because you haven’t had them?  How unbelievably self-centered.  Well, there goes that "peace" thing, since that loser Mahatma Ghandi’s experiences aren’t mine.  For that matter, neither were Aristotle’s, or da Vinci’s, or Judi Bari’s, or M.L. King’s, or well, anyone besides me!  Fuck off everyone!  I’m taking down my site and putting up a new one at a secret address where I will post all relevant information to me, that only I will read.

I would be glad to try and bring into focus some more of these points, but reading this latest email makes me sleepy.

One Response to “The C. Dalton Zone!”
  1. so, uh… when can I buy a “Howard Collins hurt me deeply” shirt?

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