You know, all I wanted to do was to update my plugs page and go home, but naturally one of them pointed back to yet another thread. The opening plugged the page a little…

Topic: Make your own damn gameLlos – posted 08-21-1999 08:24 PM

You can make your complaints on this board, that’s fine. But stop voicing them all the time! If you’re so unsatisfied with all the games out there, why don’t you design your own and become a millionaire? There have been sooooooooo many posts about “This is what I think an RPG should be like” or “Why doesn’t somebody make an RPG like this” or “this is what’s wrong with all the games out there”. Stop complaining! Nobody likes a whiner alright? So if you’re so dissatisfied with the games out there, make your own.

Oh, and if you want a second opinion of a guy who really knows where it’s at, check out his site: / and look at the AC section. He talks about a particularly stupid post that was pretty recent. >=)

Some more posts followed, some plugging the chronicles, etc… then finally, someone who didn’t like the page! Out of respect for the poster’s “context” fetish, the entire post has been tediously reproduced, although I’m not going to reprint every damn message in the thread. That’s what the little thingy that says thread is for.

Taladin – posted 08-22-1999 07:15 AMExactly, Xavier. I would absolutely LOVE to design one of these games… but as Xavier explained, it takes far more than plain desire to get one of these things underway.

I have a job and a family to take care of, I can’t exactly drop that and devote my whole time to making a MMORPG. However, if someone was willing to PAY me for that, you’d bet I’d do it, and I can guarantee you that although the game might not be for everyone (which no game is), it would have far imaginative and involving than the poor offerings the MMORPG market has to offer at the moment.

I make no such claim about any effort I might ever make in designing an MMORPG. Personally I don’t really give a rat’s ass… the elements of pen and paper RPG that intrigue me are in the realms of plot, intrigue, socio/political forces, players influencing the flow of events in a logical manner, etc. I really don’t know how to make this happen in an open market game where sUpAkIlLaH and Schniff MacRotch have just as much right to play as anyone else. But enough of this… on to the lambasting!

As far as the link that you had in post, Llos, am I correct in assuming that the guy is not a beta tester? Without being a beta tester it is a little hard to tell if there really is something to complain about, no? And another thing about the web page.. he took some stuff out of context and / or left out the entirety of what people were saying..

Okay… I can understand that someone might not know I was in beta, if they skimmed one rant without reading too carefully, didn’t read the others, didn’t see the references to beta testing in the thread he was reading, didn’t see references to the chronicles, etc. I admit freely now that I have been caught. I am NOT in the beta. I just wanted some hits, so I drew all my “screenshots” in Microsoft Paint pixel by pixel.And yes, on a personal rant page I will leave out part of the 50k thread that quotes are taken from. This does not mean that I want to malign people or misrepresent what they say by omitting things… unlike some people, I do read carefully. I just don’t want the world to have to suffer through 23 irrelevant posts so that they can get to the one thing which I’m commenting on. That’s what the little thingy that says thread is for. What the hell is it with context? Whenever anyone wants to yell at me, they almost always say, “Waaah you took my quote out of context and I’ll sue you for libel”, when their entire post/email has been reproduced faithfully, spelling mistakes and all. (Yes I know libel is the wrong word, but our postliterate society has taught people that it’s correct, so…)

For example, he trashed the guy who said that EQ sucks, so he went and bought DarkStone. The poster then went on to explain that although DS doesn’t have more roleplaying potetional than EQ or AC, it has just about the same and it doesn’t cost $10 a month to play (those weren’t his exact words, but that was what he was saying).

The only thing I see which might possibly come close to this odd rephrasing is Menju’s post. Even so, I still don’t understand what the point of this paragraph is. The Menju post had nothing to do with roleplaying, it had to do with the fact that he didn’t like the hack and slash of EQ and so was recommending Darkstone… there was no mention about monthly fees. At all. I accuse Taladin of taking things out of context and leaving out not only the entirety of what people were saying, but somehow interpreting their words with some sort of faulty universal translator before posting, or maybe just printing some stuff that came to him in a dream or something. Of course, he may have been referring to one of the other posts I reprinted, in which case this paragraph makes even less sense.

I may be wrong and the owner of the webpage is a beta tester.. but from what I’ve seen is that he is in the Denial Stage: No, no! Asheron’s Call doesn’t suck! The majority of people who post must all be whiners!

The only denial I am in right now is that I spent time reading this post and trying to figure out where the author was coming from. However, yes most of the people who post are whiners. You betcha.

Asheron’s Call isn’t a BAD game, but it isn’t a good one either. The spell research and allegiance systems add some depth, but not enough. I don’t think any MMORPG will be more than Diablo on a large scale until the players can actually have an impact on the game world.

This requires a certain level of maturity and depth you just aren’t going to get, especially if you consider forum whiners to be at least substantially representative of your target audience. And once again, the thing which makes a game interesting is the people who play it. This (combined with dev support, a really evil thing I’ll probably spout off about at some point) is what makes a game interesting to me.If you want a game where the players have an impact on the game world, there is no better example than UO. And they did have an effect… wilderness packed so tight with houses that you can’t walk, filled with all sorts of useless crap that nobody needs and will just be looted someday; gangs of misanthropic murderers who are only held partially at bay by stupid game system artifices; an economy that makes no sense due to early duping and continual money bug abuses… Sure, the impact of players in UO isn’t at the level of, say, a pen and paper RPG where a player could really cause a major social upheaval, but if you use UO as a test bed and look at the players’ contributions to that society, I for one want them as far away from influential positions as possible.

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